| | allelhia ( |
Russia's "invasion" of Georgia and potential US "response"
I'm not even going to go into CNN's "coverage" of this conflict - if you'd read those reports, you'd think Russia invaded Georgia proper without provocation and Georgia is just some poor, kicked, post-communist dog that Russia is currently beating with a large stick. There's a lot more involved here, and CNN's coverage is utter shit. That said, I'm surprised by Stratfor's response - I disagree with the cold-war analytical focus that Stratfor is putting out here. I'm rather disappointed, actually, because if I were PAYING for this information from them I'd be highly dismayed at how much this report (and the American media in general, obviously) is glossing over the factual background of this situation.
What the American media (and this article) keeps failing to mention is the fact that the region in question was an autonomous region under the Soviet Empire, separate from Georgia, and the majority of the population there supports becoming part of Russia. Imagine if Texas post-independence were then claimed as part of Mexico again but the majority of the people supported being part of the United States, then Mexico were to invade Texas in a bid to enforce it. Keep in mind that in Ossetia, the people who support the contested region being part of Russia are ethnically Ossetian (not Georgian) and historically Russian (3/4ths of the population there carries Russian passports and are Russian citizens), were part of Russia, and grew up as “Russians” – is Russia to abandon their citizens because Georgia has decided the region is theirs even when the majority of the population wants to be Russians and the land was never historically part of Georgia? There have also been reports of genocide against the Ossetians by the Georgians; bombing the cities level in the region in response to the pro-Russian sentiments so their quest for ownership of the contested region is easier to accomplish.
Georgia as only gotten cozy with the US to protect itself and have the US run interference on its behalf. It is pure political cold war and international relations 101. I think Georgia is TRYING to provoke foreign involvement on their behalf. Keep in mind that Georgia’s NATO application was recently rejected and the next time they will be up for NATO membership is this coming December – Imagine if they had become part of NATO! We’d (along with the rest of the NATO membership) would be obligated to defend them under NATO! I quite frankly see Russia’s actions as more of a response to the West’s NATO policies and the EU’s expansion into the realm of Russia’s “influence.” I think the time for action was years ago, when we first had the choice between integrating Russia back into the fold or isolating Russia by embracing the newly independent states and excluding Russia from security and economic arrangements. This current conflict is a reflection on that decision, certainly not a revenge-motive for Kosovo.
The conflict between Russia and Georgia in this area (and more generally) started way before the Kosovo independence. No one in Russia wants to invade Georgia, they just want the Georgians to stop killing Ossetians and leave them alone. Further, everyone is glossing over the fact that Georgia started this conflict… AND keep in mind that this conflict actually started almost a year ago when Russia began throwing out Georgians from the country due to escalating tension over this region with Georgia attacking peacekeeping forces located in the region since 1992. This was not a surprise overnight thing; they mobilized almost a year ago to the border when this all began (with the Russians throwing Georgians out)… So none of this was incredibly surprising to me.
Though I am glad Hubby is longer of draft age in Russia...
Deleted comment
August 10 2008, 16:49:23 UTC 3 years ago Edited: August 10 2008, 17:44:18 UTC
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 05:48:53 UTC 3 years ago
August 10 2008, 06:00:44 UTC 3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 05:54:43 UTC 3 years ago
I'm really starting to wonder if the Russians, in fact, aren't the bad guys here.
August 10 2008, 06:19:42 UTC 3 years ago
The writer here is obviously Russian, so there is a degree of bias here in this commentary.
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 06:00:45 UTC 3 years ago
August 10 2008, 06:02:59 UTC 3 years ago
May the best (strongest) man win. Anyone who suggests talking this over has an unrealistic view of human nature.
August 10 2008, 06:20:24 UTC 3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 06:04:43 UTC 3 years ago Edited: August 10 2008, 06:06:39 UTC
Yah right.
Russia is bombing civilian targets outside the peace keeping zone, so this isn't just about restoring order in the semi-autonomous area. You also glibbly ignore Russian actions in Chechnya.August 10 2008, 06:20:45 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Yah right.
keep in mind the writer is Russian....3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 06:16:30 UTC 3 years ago
August 10 2008, 06:23:51 UTC 3 years ago
I've seen this episode
August 10 2008, 06:24:16 UTC 3 years ago
In my view, Russia is the wrong person here and the bully. The US also knows that. South Ossetia is Georgian territory and should be Georgian territory. If they don't like the fact that Ukraine and Georgia are US allies and wanted to get NATO membership, tough. They're independent and have that sovereign right and Russia needs to back off and respect that. Maybe the Russians should focus on other things, like I don't know, winning the war in Chechnya while following human rights standards, and being you know, the democracy they claim to be?
August 10 2008, 17:18:01 UTC 3 years ago
South Ossetia is not traditionally part of Georgia. There has been fighting in that region since 1990, and historically even further. Georgians and Ossetians have never coexisted peacefully and both sides can still name who of their ancestors were killed by the others. We've seen "countries" assembled like so by the withdrawing British empire, or have we forgotten India and Pakistan's conflict over Kashmir or the entire disaster of arbitrarily drawing lines in the middle east without considering the ethnic populations of each country. You are making the same mistake here thinking South Ossetia is Georgian.
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 06:31:42 UTC 3 years ago
August 10 2008, 06:38:32 UTC 3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 10:38:23 UTC 3 years ago
August 10 2008, 11:00:54 UTC 3 years ago
Russia was the bully, Georgia was right in enforcing its law in its own territory. Russia should back off and the South Ossetians should accept the fact they're Georgians. They live in Georgia. If they love Russia so much they should gtfo.
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
Deleted comment
3 years ago
Deleted comment
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 13:56:45 UTC 3 years ago
I am not sure what Georgia is worth to the US or how far we should be willing to push back, but this is the camel's nose. We are going to have to push back sometime, or just lie down. Even if we end up letting the Russians take Georgia back, or flatten it like Chechneya, they shouldn't get to do it on the cheap. We should make sure it costs them.
August 10 2008, 17:31:39 UTC 3 years ago
I think your attitude is precisely the problem with America's view of its world position today. You are looking at this like it's the Cold War all over again, instead of trying to figure out how we can finally once and for all end the Cold War and grow through it. The US and Russia will never again be in a bilateral power structure, with the rise of China in the future and the strong economic base of China, ASEAN, the EU, and god forbid, NAFTA. The world has changed; isn't it time that our analysis changes too?
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 15:05:12 UTC 3 years ago
No imagination necessary: Battle of Palo Alto, 1846
Deleted comment
3 years ago
Deleted comment
August 10 2008, 17:58:35 UTC 3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 17:52:54 UTC 3 years ago
August 10 2008, 18:00:07 UTC 3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 18:06:02 UTC 3 years ago
I see.
How about this. Vladimir Vladimirovich once said, "the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century."
Do you agree or disagree?
August 10 2008, 18:16:02 UTC 3 years ago
It's Putin's personal opinion. I'm moreso curious about why you are trying to get me to label myself with either side. I'm not a Russian nationalist, I am merely looking at this conflict from an international relations perspective and with an understanding of the conflicting issues and history.
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 18:46:03 UTC 3 years ago Edited: August 10 2008, 18:46:34 UTC
But yes, the Western media is full of shit and America keeps backing Russia into a corner with the missile-defense program and an expanding Nato. The Western media was especially biased when it came to the Kosovo dealings over the past decade.
August 10 2008, 18:57:21 UTC 3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 18:59:11 UTC 3 years ago
August 10 2008, 19:03:07 UTC 3 years ago Edited: August 10 2008, 19:03:44 UTC
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 20:35:50 UTC 3 years ago
Here you go. Western media actually being accurate.
From Time Magazine's websiteNow can we stop bitching about the Russian media reporting it as a Georgian invasion and the Western media not being biased by their coverage of it as though Russia were the aggressor?
August 10 2008, 20:48:33 UTC 3 years ago
Russia, America:
Enough bleeding heart editorializing.
3 years ago
August 10 2008, 21:31:23 UTC 3 years ago
NYT: Russian Ground Forces assault vital Georgian City
No one in Russia wants to invade Georgia, yet there they are.
August 10 2008, 21:42:06 UTC 3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
3 years ago
August 11 2008, 13:17:54 UTC 3 years ago
August 12 2008, 04:17:31 UTC 3 years ago
3 years ago